I was born in Israel and it was many years before I realized that
Israel was Palestine. I was relatively patriotic. I was looking forward
to serving in the army and then I grasped that there was little truth in
the Jewish historical narrative. I then gathered that I was living on
someone else's land. At the same time I discovered the saxophone. By the
age of 30, I left Israel and never went back.
Q: There is some kind of rebellion in your music; how do you explain this?
A:
My music can be very soft and reflective. Sometimes it is very funny
and occasionally it is furious. There are too many reasons to be angry.
I'm far from happy when I see Israel flattening Gaza. I'm furious when I
find out 80 percent of British conservative MPs are 'friends of
Israel.' I'm angry when I find out the Jewish lobby is pushing America
into another World War and instead of becoming violent, sometimes I use
music as a channel to express my anger.
Q: What type of music is close to your music in the world?
A:
It's very simple. I'm a jazz artist, a Bebop player. But I'm inspired
by near east music whether it is Arabic, Turkish or Greek. I find my own
way to fuse the Arabic Mawwal with John Coltrane...
Q: What do you think of the social and political state of Turkey?
A:
Listen, I'm really against any forms of interventionism, so I'm
definitely not the right person to judge the situation here. I can only
talk about my impression, and it's not an academic observation. I'm
touring all over the world and I see a lot of sadness. I see
impoverished countries, people with no work, with no prospect of
production. I see youngsters who are third generation poor and in their
deserted main street they don't eat their own food anymore, they instead
eat McDonalds, Burger King, Coca Cola, Starbucks. And I'm here in
Turkey and see a lot of people on the streets, and I see fish from your
sea, and tomatoes from your fields, and I see a lot of people working in
the restaurants that have Turkish names and don't even offer a menu in
English, and it makes me happy for you. You have managed to maintain
your authenticity and culture. This is a great victory. You are so lucky
that Islamophobic Europeans didn't accept you in the EU. Your country
is now a superpower.
Q: You were born in Israel but you are against Israeli occupation and its politics. You are living in the West, how do you cope?
A:
Let me tell you something and it is crucial. In my entire career, I
have never been subject to abuse by the British government, never been
subject to abuse by the American government. Although the infamous Alan
Dershowitz, who is now implicated in a huge sex scandal with minors,
labelled me 'as the number one enemy of the Jewish people,' I've never
been subject to direct abuse by the Israeli government. Even the NSA
doesn't harass me. The only people who stalk me continuously are the
Jewish left and the Guardian newspaper. I can say that it's not a
problem but I came to the realization that the biggest enemy of our
elementary freedoms are the progressives and I'll explain why.
In
the West and maybe in Turkey as well, we have issues with political
correctness. What is political correctness? Political correctness is
politics that doesn't allow political opposition. But this is clearly
the definition we associate with dictatorship. But political correctness
is far worse than dictatorship. Why? Because in the case of
dictatorship you experience an opposition to a regime that is distinct
from you, but in the case of political correctness it is you who silence
yourself. Political Correctness is a form of self-censorship. The
Jewish left and the progressives made us into a collective of impotents.
Our task is to move on and to erect our resistance against this
cancerous ideology.
Q: Can we separate Judaism from Zionism
A:
No. Israel isn't called the 'Zionist State,' it defines itself as the
'Jewish State.' The parties in the government are called "Israel Our
Home" and the "Jewish Home" not the "Zionist Home"*. Now the Israeli
cabinet has approved the National Bill that defines Israel as the Jewish
state not the Zionist state. Zionism from an Israeli perspective died
in 1948. Zionism was a promise to erect a Jewish state in Zion
(Palestine). Once, Israel was established, Zionism was finished with its
role. The only people who maintain the Zionist nonsense are the Jewish
left because they want to differentiate between Jewishness and Zionism.
This is why they call Israel colonialism. But Israel is not colonialism.
Colonialism is a clear exchange between a mother state and a settler
state. Israel is a settler state, yet there is no Jewish mother state.
This is why they call it apartheid. Israel in not apartheid: Apartheid
is a racist system of exploitation. But Israel doesn't want to exploit
the Palestinians, it wants them gone. Israel is a Hitlerian ethnic
cleansing model. The Left uses the terms 'Colonialism', 'Zionism', and
'Apartheid' in an attempt to divert attention from the 'J' word. For
solidarity with Palestine to be meaningful, we have to de-Judify our
terminology. Not to kick out the Jews, but to prevent Jewish interests
from defining the boundaries of the discussion.
Q: Can we see Israel and Palestine as two states?
A: No.
Q: Will the Palestinians be able to return to their county?
A: This is what they are fighting for. And any person who doesn't accept the right of return is not a genuine supporter.
Q: What do you think about what Ahmadinejad said about the Holocaust?
A:
I agree 100 percent with everything Ahmadinejad said about the
Holocaust. Ahmadinejad basically said that Holocaust must be treated as a
historical chapter. At the moment it is treated as a religion. And if
it is a religion I want to maintain my right to be an atheist. In
contemporary Judified reality it is OK not to believe in God but if you
don't believe in Auschwitz you will be penalised and severely. I don't
accept it.
Q: What does the US gain from supporting Israel?
A:
We cannot think of America as an independent entity anymore. America's
political system is a Jewish occupied zone. America, Britain, France,
[and generally] the West woke up one morning to realize that there was a
loop hole in their legal system that facilitated the ability of
invasive foreign lobbies such as AIPAC, CFI, CRIF to interfere with
their foreign affairs. America has sacrificed its foreign interests on
the Jewish alter. It is a disaster. But history teaches us that this
Jewish political impunity always comes to an end in a totally tragic
circumstance.
Q: Do you agree that a Holocaust is happening in Gaza?
A:
I don't know what the Holocaust is anymore. I'm like Ahmadinejad in
that regard. When I was a kid they taught me that the Nazis made soap
out of Jews. And then I grew up and realized it was all a fantasy. They
taught me that the Arabs were going to throw us into the sea. And when I
was mature enough to learn the history on my own I realized that it was
actually the Jews who threw Palestinians into the sea. Then I realized
that Jews (like everyone else) tend to project their cultural symptoms
on others. The Jews are fearful of the Palestinians because the Jews
witness their army engaged in murderous activity. They must believe the
Palestinians are as murderous as the IDF happens to be.
I don't
want to talk in terms of the Holocaust because it is too Jewish. I don't
want to compare Israel with Nazism because Israel is bad enough. From
some perspectives Israel is worse than Nazism (Israel is a Jewish
democracy it implies a collective responsibility). When I compare Israel
with Nazism I reaffirm the Holocaust religion and sustain the primacy
of Jewish suffering. We have to establish a new discourse where Israelis
are the worst enemy of humanity and the Palestinians are the ultimate
sufferers. Auschwitz was indeed bad, but not as bad as Gaza.
Q: Iran is not after nuclear arms the whole world knows that. How do you explain the fuss around the Iranian nuclear project?
A:
I have no problem with Iranian nuclear arms. I want Iran to have a
bomb. Just One Iranian bomb will bring peace to the region. Because all
this mess in the Middle Ease caused by Israel and America is because
they know they can kill with impunity and endlessly. And my problem with
the Shias is that they are too nice. They really don't want to bomb
anyone. An atomic bomb is Haram they say.
Q: What is your opinion about Iran's role in the Middle East?
A:
Iran is the most beautiful political power. It supports the
Palestinians. It supports the resistance. Iran has developed very strong
industry. This country that was a client state of America 34 years ago
now produces submarines, airplanes, drones, very strong computers. It is
beautiful.
Q: Obama is the first black president of
America but statistics show scores of black people are shot dead every
year. How do you analyze this contradiction?
A: We like
to think in terms of racial division because this is the heritage of the
left, but it is wrong. In the west and in the last 50 years there has
been a collapse of manufacturing partially because of automation,
machinery, and computerization but also because Milton Friedman taught
us that is better to be a service economy. The meaning of it in America,
Britain, France, etc. is that we don't need working people. The people
who used to be working class are now workless class, 8and they are
doomed to poverty with no hope, they are called under-class. As things
stand, existing jobs demand very high cognitive ability (very high I.Q.)
such as engineers, financiers, bankers, PRs. This group of privileged
people is what I call the 'cognitive elite,' and they are few in number.
We live in a society where we witness the under-class growing rapidly
and a small cognitive elite maintaining its power. Obama is well within
the cognitive elite and not because he is black, but because he is
clever and he clearly found his way to the top. When it comes to the
under-class we realize that there are a lot of immigrants including many
Hispanics and Blacks. They are the primary sufferers of the new cruel,
merciless division not between the rich and the poor but between the
able and the less able. It is very devastating. This is why Turkey is so
important. You manage your economy and currency in a manner that
facilitates manufacturing.
(Reporting by Mehmet Gurhan/ The People's Voice).
Gilad Atzmon is a British Jazz artist and author. He was born in "Israel" in
1963 and trained at the Rubin Academy of Music, Jerusalem (Composition
and Jazz). A multi-instrumentalist he plays saxophones, clarinet and
ethnic woodwind instruments. His album Exile was the BBC jazz album of
the year in 2003. Gilad writes on political matters, social issues,
Jewish identity and culture. His papers are published on very many press
outlets around the world. Gilad is a popular political analyst and is
often guesting on Television and Radio stations around the world such as
RT, Press TV, BBC and many more.
